Lightning network : what about receiving payments ?

Lane

New member
Hi,

I've been "using" (quoted because it's more tweaking than real use) the Lightning network for about a year and I still have a question that I could not get answered to. Lightning network is a great mean of payments, but what about getting paid for the average user ? You need to get someone open and fund a channel with you but since you are just a random guy you won't convince anybody, or maybe just another random guy. If you want
, let's say, withdraw some funds from a website (a big, famous one) : this website has to fund a channel with you, which it won't do because it has a cost (some bitcoins locked, not talking about on-chain transactions fees), or with the guy that funded a channel with you, which it won't do for the same reasons.

If the Lightning network becomes more popular, how could be solved this problem (that the average user could just be the payer and not the payee) ? Would it lead to the fact that you would have to pay to get a well-connected node opening a channel with you ? Am I missing something ?
 

Ivan

Member
This wonders me too. I hope we will get some experts view in it. I think for the regular dudes they will need to deposit their btc to several channels depending on the merchant. For example: If you shop with ebay then you will have one with ebay and if you want to trade with amazon then you will need another one for amazon.

Lightening Network will surely save expensed for online Merchants.
 

Juan

Member
let's say, withdraw some funds from a website (a big, famous one) : this website has to fund a channel with you, which it won't do
The clue is in the name (i.e. "network")

The website does not need to open a channel to send funds to it's users. All that's needed is a series of channels that are linked through more than one lightning node.


Website -> A -> B -> ... -> darosior


As long as A, B and all other nodes in between have enough money to fund the payment, then the payment route is viable and you receive your withdrawal
 

Kingston

Member
let's say, withdraw some funds from a website (a big, famous one) : this website has to fund a channel with you, which it won't do
The clue is in the name (i.e. "network")

The website does not need to open a channel to send funds to it's users. All that's needed is a series of channels that are linked through more than one lightning node.


Website -> A -> B -> ... -> darosior


As long as A, B and all other nodes in between have enough money to fund the payment, then the payment route is viable and you receive your withdrawal
If and only if B has funded a channel with me, but why would he ? That's my question. In my understanding since there is no incentive to fund a channel to someone, average people won't have well connected node opening channel with them and thus won't be able to receive payments.
 

Ashton

Member
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the answer is for this case the use of 3rd party services.

OK, if you, John Doe, even if nobody knows you, if you will use frequently LN for sending and receiving payments, most probably you'll find somebody (a service) to open the channel with.

But if you won't, probably the online wallet services will also allow LN transactions. Of course, this means centralisation and lower security...
 

Kaiden

Member
If and only if B has funded a channel with me
Nope.

You need a channel. Just one. That node needs to have at least 2 channels (1 with you, 1 more with someone else). That node needs to have at least 2 channels.... etc. Repeat until you have a complete route to who you're actually paying. It's a network
 

Giovanni

Member
If and only if B has funded a channel with me
Nope.

You need a channel. Just one. That node needs to have at least 2 channels (1 with you, 1 more with someone else). That node needs to have at least 2 channels.... etc. Repeat until you have a complete route to who you're actually paying. It's a network
You seem to don't understand what I'm saying, I understand what is a network thank you for the precision. Here is a practical exemple :
I have opened a channel with the well-connected node "1ML". Thanks to this well connected node I am able to play lightning-roulette since I can pay the underlying node. I won't be able to withdraw what I gained (If I ever gain ^^) because 1ML won't bother locking some bitcoins to fund a channel to me.
 

Jesus

Member
I have opened a channel with the well-connected node "1ML". Thanks to this well connected node I am able to play lightning-roulette since I can pay the underlying node. I won't be able to withdraw what I gained (If I ever gain ^^) because 1ML won't bother locking some bitcoins to fund a channel to me.
There is no need for 1ML to open back a channel to you. Once you send your payment, the funds are moved on the 1ML's side. Then, 1ML moves coins in their other channel to the side of the next node which routes the payment (or just lightning-roulette in this case). If you request a withdrawal then the funds can take the same route assuming that 1ML didn't close their channel with lightning-roulette and has enough liquidity.

If you still don't get it, you can download Eclair Mobile Testnet for Android. Recently, they added support for receiving payments so you can test it out and see how it works.
 

Calvin

Member
I have opened a channel with the well-connected node "1ML". Thanks to this well connected node I am able to play lightning-roulette since I can pay the underlying node. I won't be able to withdraw what I gained (If I ever gain ^^) because 1ML won't bother locking some bitcoins to fund a channel to me.
There is no need for 1ML to open back a channel to you. Once you send your payment, the funds are moved on the 1ML's side. Then, 1ML moves coins in their other channel to the side of the next node which routes the payment (or just lightning-roulette in this case). If you request a withdrawal then the funds can take the same route assuming that 1ML didn't close their channel with lightning-roulette and has enough liquidity.

If you still don't get it, you can download Eclair Mobile Testnet for Android. Recently, they added support for receiving payments so you can test it out and see how it works.
I thought if 1ML doesn't fund the channel in the first place, the channel would stay a one-way one.
 

Stone

Member
I thought if 1ML doesn't fund the channel in the first place, the channel would stay a one-way one.
The Lightning Network consists only of bi-directional payment channels. The problem with receiving payments is that you can't receive if there is not enough space in your channel. Also, currently, only one party can fund a channel. Dual-funded channels are not available, yet
 

Ahmir

Member
Ok so it seems that I had a big misuderstanding of bi-directionnal channels, thank you all.
 
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